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4 Arrested Marines Named in Long Beach Gay Beating

The Camp Pendleton Marines have posted bail and have returned to their units.

Four Camp Pendleton Marines who were arrested after a fight at a Long Beach gay bar have been identified by their unit.

Cpl. Lewis Serna, Pfc. Thomas Pentek, Pfc. Sean Miller and Lance Cpl. John O'Leary were arrested after a fight Monday at a Belmont Heights gay bar called The Silver Fox.

Related: 

The four Marines are out on bail and have returned to their units, according to Maj. Manuel Dela Rosa, of the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force.

"This is an isolated incident," he stated. "Committing any hate crime is unacceptable behavior and is not tolerated in the Marine Corps."

To watch the alleged victim of the attack and the Good Samaritan who attempted to intervene, click here.

Watts September 06, 2012 at 09:42 PM
Either these guys are gay, bi-curious or went in looking for trouble. I have been in plenty of gay bars, when hanging out with groups of mixed preference friends. But one thing that I have noticed in my life is that when I hanging out with three straight buddies, going to a gay bar never comes up as a suggestion. BTW, does anybody know where in the Marine officer hierarchy that these Corporals land? I really hope that this story doesn't get buried, because I want to hear what got these marines into that bar to begin with. My guess, given how this ended with a violent hate crime, is that one or more of these guys struggles with their own homosexual feelings and this is how it all ended up.
John B. Greet September 06, 2012 at 09:49 PM
That's a whole bunch of speculation, there, Watts. Wouldn't it be more productive to speculate less, and discuss the facts -as they are provided- more? A Marine Corporal is an E-4 and equal in rank to an Army Corporal. A Marine Lance Corporal is an E-3, and equal in rank to an Army Private First Class. A Marine PFC is an E-2 and equal in rank to an Army Private. http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://marineocsguide.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/usmc-enlisted-rank-structure.jpg&imgrefurl=http://marineocsguide.com/know-usmc-ranks/&h=595&w=800&sz=340&tbnid=FAOulvUZwryMMM:&tbnh=83&tbnw=111&zoom=1&usg=__k245qmaQI3nT1Jg9gyBRB3nHmYA=&docid=6406V_8uHRwy6M&hl=en&sa=X&ei=lxlJUJ_6MMTUqgG8i4HYAg&ved=0CD0Q9QEwAw&dur=2122
Watts September 06, 2012 at 10:20 PM
I thought that it was obvious that I was speculating, but thanks for dummying down the obvious for anybody who could have mistaken my post for fact. I thought that concluding this with the qualifying statement "My guess..." would have cleared up any doubt if I was speculating or not. Thanks for the details on the ranks. So if I am understanding this correctly, these are all pretty low ranking guys in the Marines. I was thinking that maybe one or two of these guys were leaders of some sort.
John B. Greet September 06, 2012 at 10:48 PM
All marines, regardless of rank, are trained to be leaders. Unfortunately sometimes that training doesn't take. The corporal outranked the other three in this case. Perhaps had there been a higher ranking enlisted person with them, they might have made some better choices when they came to town. I think one of the things that tends to "dummy down" a person's comments is their stating some things as facts when they cannot possibly know them to be factual. For example: "Either these guys are gay, bi-curious or went in looking for trouble" is stated as a fact but I do not think you know either of those to be factual. Likewise: "...given how this ended with a violent hate crime..." is also stated as a fact even though we do not know for certain, yet, whether this was, in fact, a hate crime. See?
Watts September 06, 2012 at 10:51 PM
Here are some more local news sources covering this... http://www.kpbs.org/news/2012/sep/06/four-camp-pendleton-marines-accused-beating-gay-ma/ http://www.lbpost.com/news/2000000954-marines-involved-in-possible-hate-crime http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/local/los_angeles&id=8799184
Watts September 06, 2012 at 11:07 PM
You are a tedious individual, John. No, I do not know these people and I thought that my full statement (not what you are now lifting out of context) made that obvious. How many qualifiers does a person have to put in a comments section to a barely seen Patch article on the internet, to satisfy you. You are like those grammer and spelling police that always haunt forums. We aren't posting here in any formal way and I really don't think that anybody would have been stupid enough to have read my post and thought that I had some inside personal information on these guys. I was sharing my insights based solely on my personal experiences with the LBGT community and even on the flip-side, having had to deal with homophobes in my life. And while I have no idea how much you personally have been exposed to all of this, I am sure that most people drawn to this article might draw similar conclusions. I just don't see that many other scenarios that circle back to 4 marines innocently, without personal motivations, end up in a gay bar at near last call. While I appreciate the info on the rankings, I am just going to take a pass in regards to your thinking that I was somehow misleading anybody into thinking that my guesses about these guys was somehow ever going to be misinterpreted as actual facts. If these were facts, don't you think that I would be down at the police departments sharing this information and not posting it on Patch?
John B. Greet September 06, 2012 at 11:15 PM
"I am just going to take a pass in regards to your thinking that I was somehow misleading anybody into thinking that my guesses about these guys was somehow ever going to be misinterpreted as actual facts." I never thought you were trying to mislead anyone nor ever stated that I thought that. All I stated was that you engaged in a whole lot of speculation and simply asked you if it wouldn't be more productive to speculate less, and discuss the facts -as they are provided- more. I am not interested in guessing at what sort of conclusions "most people drawn to this article might draw." I prefer to discuss facts, when they are available, and leave idle speculation and assumptions to others.
Watts September 06, 2012 at 11:37 PM
If you are waiting for proven facts regarding the psychological motivations bubbling under the surface of these guys, then you may be waiting forever. This isn't a lifetime movie ending with the buff military guy sobbing into his hands about his repressed homosexual feelings. This is a developing story and normal people just talk about things as they develop. If you don't want to engage in that, then just move on. I am not sure what world you live in where you think that your seal of approval means something, but I couldn't care less if you don't like that I post my personal opinion on here. You are obviously playing mama bear about these marines and if memory serves me correctly, I think that you are ex military of some sort, so that is understandable. But right now, if you go to the extra links that I posted with the interviews, you can see some pretty compelling interviews and witnesses and even the police who already are pursuing this as a hate crime. So if you want to wait until this case is tried and determined before you talk about it, that is fine and your choice. Now just honor my choice to become engaged at this point and to share my opinion with anybody who may stumble across this article.
Nancy Wride (Editor) September 07, 2012 at 12:23 AM
Hi Watts, I was e-mailed privately by several people pointing out that they did not feel it was likely that the our suspects accidentally ended up going to a gar bar when it is called The Silver Fox and has been around awhile.
FOBESQ September 07, 2012 at 12:32 AM
Watts, your first was right on. It is well known that Marines (always a bad apple or 4 in the barrel) would go and beat up on gays in Laguna Beach. So, your comment about "their looking for trouble" is likely correct.
Watts September 07, 2012 at 12:43 AM
One of those other interviews or articles states that these marines actually mentioned going in to the bar that they were straight, which (and for John's sake, I will qualify by stating "if this is a fact") would mean that they knew that it was a gay bar when walking in.
John B. Greet September 07, 2012 at 12:46 AM
"I am not sure what world you live in where you think that your seal of approval means something, but I couldn't care less if you don't like that I post my personal opinion on here." I have no seal here at all, approval or otherwise. As I said previously, all I stated was that you engaged in a whole lot of speculation and simply asked you if it wouldn't be more productive to speculate less, and discuss the facts -as they are provided- more. If you disagree, a simple "no" might have sufficed. You seem to take constructive suggestions rather personally. I think that's unfortunate. Another Patch article has already made it clear that LBPD is investigating this incident as a possible hate crime. If LBPD decides to file it that way, and if the prosecutor chooses to proceed on that basis, and if one or more of these defendants is convicted of one or more hate crimes, I hope those who are convicted receive the most severe punishment the law allows.
John B. Greet September 07, 2012 at 01:34 AM
"It is well known that Marines (always a bad apple or 4 in the barrel) would go and beat up on gays in Laguna Beach." Well known by whom, Frank? How often have such despicable acts occurred, if you know?
Watts September 07, 2012 at 01:37 AM
I know that you are not going to like this John, but you could start any story with "Four marines walk into a bar..." and any betting man knows that the smart money is going to be that the story ends with a fight. This bar just happened to be a gay bar and they made this person's sexuality an issue and in a state where that qualifies as a hate crime (again, if these are the facts), then these guys are screwed.
John B. Greet September 07, 2012 at 02:20 AM
Watts I want to apologize. I get a bit literal sometimes and I have a strong sense of the critical importance of due process where criminal law is concerned. Speculation is not neccessarily a bad thing. In fact I indulge in a bit of it in the column I just published, here, entitled "Crimes v. Hate Crimes". Again, my sincere apologies. Of course it may well be just as you and some others suggest. If so, goodness knows these would not be the first servicemembers, from whatever branch, who headed out on the town on leave looking to raise a fuss with the first person or people that looked at or spoke to them the wrong way. My personal preference would be that this was all this was, and that there was no hate or bias involved. The investigation will tell us more and, as mentioned, if this proves to be a hate crime, and they are ultimately convicted, I hope they get the most severe penalty possible from our justice system. Then I hope they get drummed right back *out* of the Corps, with dishonorable discharges, after their Commanding Officer and the UCMJ gets through with them.
hf2hvit September 07, 2012 at 03:07 PM
"Either these guys are gay, bi-curious or went in looking for trouble" Nothing too difficult to understand.
hf2hvit September 07, 2012 at 04:04 PM
So where are the right-wingers now exclaiming, "IF ONLY ONE OF THOSE CUSTOMERS OR EMPLOYEES HAD A GUN"??? I suggest that the owners of gay bars, who have a responsibility to protect their patrons, keep a loaded gun on the establishment at all times and make sure your employees know how to use it.
Watts September 07, 2012 at 05:26 PM
This may surprise John or anybody else who thinks that they understand my position on gun control, but I think that the owners of any business that interfaces with the general public (like stores, bars, etc.) should keep a gun behind the counter and that all managers that are left to run the business are trained to use those guns.
John B. Greet September 07, 2012 at 08:45 PM
"This may surprise John or anybody else who thinks that they understand my position on gun control..." Not sure why you would think your position would surprise me, Watts. I don't recall you ever having written anything about firearms before, pro or con, so I wouldn't really have any information on which to base an opinion in that area. I don't think all businesses should have firearms available. Some owners/managers/employees have strong personal convictions against the taking of human life, even in self defense. In those cases, such businesses should not have firearms handy. All those firearms would likely become in those cases are additional weapons for suspect to use against such businesses and their owners/managers/employees. Also, unless the victim in this case was in reasonable fear for his life, the court would likely have seen a deadly force response in his defense as excessive and, so, unlawful.
Watts September 07, 2012 at 10:54 PM
"Not sure why you would think your position would surprise me, Watts. I don't recall you ever having written anything about firearms before, pro or con, so I wouldn't really have any information on which to base an opinion in that area." - John probably the whole reason that I know who you are is because of an epic back and forth that we had on the subject, where you kept trying to paint me as f I was out to take away everybody's guns and I kept emphasizing the idea of sane gun regulation, not an absolute ban. This was the whole "nature of man" thread. I get that you spend way too much tie on here going back and forth with everybody, but that was a rather epic thread that even other people started to talk about in other threads.
Watts September 08, 2012 at 01:23 AM
I think that you believe that you are better at the passive agressive game than you really are. I was once described as being about as subtle as a lightening bolt in your backyard and I own up to it. For a less skilled eye, maybe you can play the coy retired cop with the tie photo, but your posts ooze judgments about everybody and everything, right down to how well somebody qualifies every sentence in every post. I am not sure if you will recall, but that was really the very first posts that you and I got into an exchange about, which was that I started to do a critique on your rhetorical manipulation of facts, this forum and even others that post on here. You almost had a meltdown over that and said that I was off subject, even though I had started the thread and, by default had determined the initial path of discussion. Then that lead to the whole "I know that you are smarter than you act" stuff, which you also didn't like and to this day, I still don't know if you are the manipulator that I see when I read your posts and agendas or if you are the charming, smarter and better dressed version of Elmer Fudd that you pretend to be.
John B. Greet September 08, 2012 at 01:23 AM
I suppose it's good that one of us remembers it, then. : ) Man is by nature evil. We covered that, right? ; ) You peaked my interest about this "epic back and forth" on the suject of guns, so I looked it up. I think you're referring to the exchange we had in my column on the Second Amendment: http://belmontshore.patch.com/blog_posts/the-right-to-keep-and-bear-arms Can you please cite any comment of mine in our exchange there that indicated an effort on my part to "paint (you) as if (you were) out to take away everybody's guns"? If it is there, I sure don't see it. Thanks. Thanks also for judgmental comment concerning how much time I choose to spend here. It is my time to spend, yes? So why judge? : )
John B. Greet September 08, 2012 at 01:34 AM
"...which was that I started to do a critique on your rhetorical manipulation of facts..." If by this you mean your repeated doubting of the existence of the person I named "Chuck" in my column. Did you ever actually go to the location I cited and read the comments I had paraphrased for my column? If not, why not? I told you precisely where to find them so there can really be no reasonable excuse for not seeking to verify my claim. If you did go, then you surely saw that the person did indeed exist, that I paraphrased the person's comments quite accurately, and that because I did do, there was not, in fact, any "rhetorical manipulation of facts." Correct? As I mentioned in my comments to you then, you seem to have this need to offer insult, scoff, and denigrate in the midst of your observations. That is not a very constructive, let alone polite, way to approach people, whether you disagree with them or not. We all have our personalities, Watts. Mine is not always as constructive or productive as it could be and for that I sincerely apologize.
Nancy Wride (Editor) September 08, 2012 at 03:27 AM
Did anyone see this? http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/09/08/alleged-gay-bashing-by-marines-mars-post-don-t-ask-don-t-tell-era.html
John B. Greet September 08, 2012 at 03:50 AM
I depart from some of my conservative bretheren and sistren on the issue of gay rights. "DOMA" was as asinine as it was extra-constitutional and seeking, as the Republican Party does, to amend the Constitution to define marriage would be equally asinine and entirely inappropriate. That said, I think it is a far and torturous stretch to attempt to lay this incident to any degree at the feet of current political rhetoric. Regardless of what *may* happen following the election, in *every* branch of the current military, LGBT folks are permitted to serve openly and "straights" are ordered to accept and respect them. Those straights who do not follow those orders are subject to military discipline, just like these four marines most likely will face, and rightly so.
Shitface September 08, 2012 at 08:08 AM
Smoke weed
CPL BELTBUCKLE September 12, 2012 at 12:43 AM
@WATT and @FRANK.Greet jsuk a MARINE CPL is a LEADER, its called small unit leadership and seeing that it doesnt look like eithier of you know what your talking about when it comes to marines shut your mouth and worry about someother bullshit misinformed news story. @John thank you for being well educated and giving the marines a chance at just dumb luck, but i do want to say that bar fights happen everynight and nobody says anything but oh a group of marines beat up a gay person its all their fault ever think maybe this so called victim wasnt a victim he possibly could have provoked the marines and we protect our own.
Watts September 13, 2012 at 08:15 AM
I get that ranks mean something within the isolated world of the military, but don't fault anybody outside of that for not knowing ranks (and certainly not anybody like myself who was actually trying to find out more about it). If you ever take a step outside of the military, you will probably realize that such subtleties of ranks really don't mean much in the real world. I know somebody right now who held a fairly impressive specialized rank in the Army, who now sells a commodity at barely minimum wage. Your service to the country means a lot. The rank while doing it, to the vast majority of the world, doesn't mean anything. If you are going to be hot and heavy about the appreciation and/or understanding of ranks in the general population, then you better plan on a military life where this means something.
Watts September 13, 2012 at 08:27 AM
John, you apologize half heartedly, too easily and too obviously. You know, as well as anybody reading your posts that you are not the zen god that you pretend to be. I will give you that you have a fairly straight eye on legal issues, but that is where it ends. Why I or anybody else that you try to call out can't pick apart every single instance and nuance is because we aren't retired. I already waste more time than I should with this admittedly addictive type of ideological parlaying. And while I know that the lack of a retort to very single post that you take the time to put on here, gives you what would appear to be a logistical win to the casual reader; I also know that you understand this leverage, which is why you intentionally go back to every thread to make sure that you have the last post. Even this thread was only a mishap that I stumbled back to see what you had tried to close with and I know that you will most likely again try to get that last post in here, knowing that nobody can spend as much time on this site as you.

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